Take Two

C11 staff discuss the second presidential debate.

By David Kuo, Conor Friedersdorf, Peter Suderman, and James Poulos,  October 7, 2008

The Next Debate Matters

By David Kuo

The next debate will be the most important debate of the campaign–yet neither Barack Obama nor John McCain will be present. The next debate is about what happens to conservatism after John McCain’s defeat in November.

That McCain will lose is now a virtual certainty. This great American war hero, this truly great American has been broken by a campaign that has overwhelmed him. He does not know how to handle the unexpected economic horror that has been revealed over the past several weeks. He does not know how to break the increasingly confident, comfortable, and unflappable Barack Obama. Worst of all, John McCain has no real idea why he should be president. He knows that he has grueling contempt for his opponent. He knows, intuitively, that he is a better, more tested man. But when it comes to specific policies and solutions he is intellectually, philosophically, and politically vacuous.

In that he is a perfect reflection of conservatism in America today.

Today’s conservatism is lost. It is so lost it doesn’t actually know if it lost at sea, lost in space, or lost in a desert. It lacks moral courage, a philosophical core, and intellectual certitude. McCain’s defeat will help change all of that because his defeat will lead to a debate within conservatism unlike anything in several decades. 

Exactly 16 years ago this month conservatism found itself in a similar - though much more grounded - place. 

It was clear that President George H.W. Bush was likely headed towards defeat ruined by his own lack of passion and a team of political advisers out of touch with the concerns of average Americans. Bill Clinton–to the dismay and disbelief of conservatives–seemed to be on his way to the White House. 

Some conservatives quickly got over the grief and set about trying to reclaim the policy and political underpinnings of a conservative movement to come. Among the ideas and policies that were advanced were school choice, programs to move people from welfare to work, anti-crime policies that were both tough and compassionate, term limits, and a balanced budget amendment. Many of these ideas would go on to fuel the so-called "Republican Revolution" just two years later. 

It is time for conservatives to head into the wilderness once again or, as Bill Bennett put it 16 years ago, to have their own Council of Trent.

We at Culture11 welcome that journey and that debate.


How To Win Friends and Influence People

By Peter Suderman

Who won the debate? Tom Brokaw. He was funny. He was probing. He was fair (and balanced even!). He tried to hold the candidates to the rules on which they’d agreed.

Who lost the debate?  The questioners in the room, mostly, none of whom asked a single question you couldn’t answer with a few minutes on Google.

But that’s par for the townhall format. On the other hand, we did get a better sense of the candidates’ physical presences. 

Obama, as always, appeared sophistacted, urbane: He held the mic in that delicate, refined way of final-level American Idol contestants, and constantly seemed to be holding an imaginary pen in the air and trying to visualize it. He will solve America’s energy crisis with telekinesis.

McCain, on the other hand, came off as less the high-toned maverick and more the self-satisfied frat-boy goof: He started several of his answers with an Igor-via-Beavis-and-Butthead chuckle: heh-heh, heh-heh. Sorry dude: not funny.

One thing that’s clear from this debate is how little there is to John McCain and his campaign. He’s running on a few, vague issues – tax cuts, an aggressive response to Russia in specific and terrorism in general, something about energy – and a whole lot of non-policy fluff: America’s inherent strength and goodness, Obama’s inexperience, scorn for Washington insiders. But mostly, he’s running on a platform anchored by a single assumption: that John McCain is inherently, singularly qualified to lead the country, and, subsequently, deserving of the office of president. McCain views the White House as something to which he is unequivocally entitled. Beyond that, nothing else matters. Indeed, if you hold this view, nothing else would.

Obama, on the other hand, despite all the criticism and complaints that he’s running a personality cult rather than an issues-based campaign, is running a much more expansive campaign. It’s about Obama, yes, and Obama’s singular personality, but it’s also about Obama’s specific plans and proposed policies: on health care, on the environment and concerns about energy, on the economy, and on foreign policy. I don’t agree with much of what Obama proposes; he shares a fundamentally different view of how the economy works and how it should work. But the plain fact is that Obama is running a smarter, more detailed, more thoughtful and relevant campaign than McCain – and it’s showing at the polls.

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Comments

Anonymous October 10, 2008 8:21 am
LOL. I'm entitled to 700 billion I am, that makes me a conservative ICON.
Anonymous October 9, 2008 9:49 pm
Disclaimer: I have canvassed for Obama. As a soon-to-be-naturalized immigrant, I want to support a party that values fiscal and social responsibility, hard work, fairness , less government intervention , freedom and peace. These are the values that brought me to the US and allowed me to succeed . But for me, today's GOP embodies militarism, xenophobia and religiosity. I don't want to be a Democrat, but there is nowhere else for an immigrant to go these days. I'd take Obama's tax hike (yes, I make over 250K) over endless war any day.
Anonymous October 9, 2008 8:40 pm
One of the most hopeful trends to emerge from the interminable 2008 election cycle (which started in 2005) is the movement of actual conservatives away from the Republican party. As has been said many times before (belabored, even), the current Republican party is bereft of ideas, enslaved to the most prejudicial branch of Evangelical theology, and relies almost entirely on corruption, jingoism, and contempt. It has gotten to the point that "conservative" doesn't really mean anything. I very much hope that a new strain of American political philosophy will be able to emerge, whether here or elsewhere, and that reasoned discourse, hard-nosed attention to facts, and objective appraisal will triumph over the vapid discourse the Republican party platform is offering. - S.G.E.W.
Anonymous October 9, 2008 2:03 pm
To me most conservatives I know are great people, including McCain. The problem is their held hostage buy the evangelical right. Social conservatism is old and out dated and uneducated. Reality check not president or court is going to over turn roe v wad. Its over if you think that, you’re the problem. The republicans need to look into the Democratic Party for other similar fiscally and small government minded people. They are out there (me) but I refuse to vote for any candidate or party that supports social conservative. Lose the whack jobs, which McCain 1.0 did but the party brass forced him to the right (there is no way Palin was his ultimate choice, she their because she meets minimum requirements of the republican right.. which apparently is going to church and not having an abortion)
Anonymous October 9, 2008 1:22 pm
An interesting set of views, from all of you. Thank you. I am an eclectic center-liberal (more towards the center than towards the liberal), and I sorely miss a principled opposition required for a political synthesis. I agree with Mr. Kuo that a period of self-examination is likely, but I hope it does not consist of a simple pile-on. Electoral success has not been kind to the Republican party; I feel that it has out-lived its electoral mandate with a continuous series of excreble and dishonest tactics since the Gingrich "revolution," that have extended it's electoral success at the same time that it has decayed the integrity and philosophical underpinnings of conservatism. Thus we find ourselves at a point where the Republican coalition is lashed together by the worst kind of sectoral buy-offs, promotion of cultural divisiveness and fear-mongering, and the uncritical embrace of laizzes faiare corporate capitalism. This kind of (temporary) political success is not unprescedented, but is invariably temporary. A renaissance of principled conservatism depends on the following: 1. A party driven towards the center, rather than from a radical extreme. 2. Disavowal of the most extreme elements of the movement: in this case, the racists, the global-imposition-of-democracy crowd, and the warrior portion of the religious right. 3. A new consensus on the set of primary principles that conservatism should protect: maintenance of traditional cultural norms is forever in conflict with an uncritical embrace of unregulated capitalism. Small government, similarly, is not inherently compatible with military expansionism. 4. A spokesman / leader (a la Ronald Reagan) that can articulate and personify these principles. Any attempt to reconstruct a conservatism with long-term governing potential must, I think, wait until these four conditions have been met.
Anonymous October 9, 2008 10:34 am
You liberals are all idiots. Why do you feel entitled to anything? What happened to hard work and personal accountability? Do you really think the government can solve all your problems? Wake the hell up and smell the coffee. Conservatives will never die nor go away, we make up the backbone of this country to which our founding fathers put forth.
Anonymous October 9, 2008 8:26 am
The better man? Obama is infinitely more intelligent, he's running a far superior campaign. McCain is tested? How exactly? He's had everything handed to him by virtue of who his father and grandfather were--didn't we have enough of this kind if personality with GWB? I suggest you read the article in Rolling Stone about this bogus "maverick, war hero, pow" myth- and take another look at his time in a Vietnam prison--the man is and was reckless, he comes across as a coward to me, he's a sleaze in regard to how he deals with women. He's perfectly willing to descend to any levels to smear his opponent, he's openly contemptuous of a fellow Senator--is this who anyone wants representing the US to the world? He has no honor-he is a vain and stupid man and a liar who seems oblivious to the fact that there are miles of video showing he is a liar. I for one am tired of being more intelligent than the people running my government. I think conservatives should examine their need to mythologize their leaders--Bush, Reagan, McCain--stop lying to yourselves about what these people are really like. And get off this manipulative pushing of "values" "patriotism" etc--too often it's a cover for the greed that seems to drive the Republican Party. And stop appealing to the worst in people--their fear, racism, hatred of anything unfamiliar--these attitudes will destroy our country and the GOP has made these people their base.
Anonymous October 8, 2008 11:04 pm
John McCain has proven himself to be a giant asshole. "The better man, the more tested man ..." Please--absurd statement. The better more tested man brought us the national nightmare known as Sarah Palin. My friends, enough said! He's despicable and deserves to be booted out of office.
Anonymous October 8, 2008 7:02 pm
Thank God that David Kuo is wrong. The debate about the future of conservatism may be important to conservatives, but after a decade and a half of ascendancy, conservatism is finally, blissfully irrelevant to the rest of us. Please do find a way to make the movement relevant and useful for its emergence in a couple of decades (maybe start by quashing the gay-hating and knee-jerk militarism), but the debate that actually matters is about the future of Democratic Party ideas. Those ideas, after all, are the ones that will be driving Congress and the White House.
Pedro Calderon October 8, 2008 5:08 pm
I'd like to think that Kuo is right but I'm afraid he's not: there will be no "debate." Why? Because the people who brought "conservatism" to this sorry state have enough money, microphones and mindless thuggish followers to make sure that any serious and thoughtful discussion is relegated to the margins. Instead, you will have endless recriminations, as Ross Douthat has predicted, about McCain not being strident enough in his portrayal of BHO as a "terrorist sympathizer." They will be walking examples of what Chesterton, IIRC, defined as a fanatic: "a man who having lost sight of his objective redoubles his efforts."

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